Chinese Mandarin - how to say "shame on you" -

> Learning Chinese > Chinese Tattoos, Chinese Names and Quick Translations
how to say "shame on you"
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lilac521 -

How do you say "shame on you" in Chinese?

A pretty strong statement, but not offensive - the context I want to use it in is directed towards
a country, like "Shame on you America!"

I was thinking 你真丢脸 but wasn't sure if that was really quite right or could be used in
that way.

Thanks!!!



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skylee -

consider “無恥！”.










ABCinChina -

How about "真是可恥的!" and in your context, "美國，你真是可恥的"

Somebody correct me if I am way off base here...










skylee -



Quote:

"真是可恥的!"

I would drop the 是 and 的.










semantic nuance -

Consider: 不要臉!!










YuehanHao -

While I imagine this won't work in the context of "Shame on America!," sometimes when I get into
trouble, I will be scolded by my wife ”羞羞羞羞！，“ which is accompanied by a finger
stroking down against the cheek. Anyway, just an aside on a related usage of "shame"...

约翰好！










skylee -



Quote:

”羞羞羞羞！，“ which is accompanied by a finger stroking down against the cheek.

We do this to kids.










Luobot -

How do you translate the finger stroking down the cheek?

Does it signify tears, a blushing face, no face at all?










skylee -

It is called 刮羞. The person doing it is teasing the other(s) that he/she/they has/have done
something shameful / laughable.










YuehanHao -



Quote:

”羞羞羞羞！，“ which is accompanied by a finger stroking down against the cheek.

--We do this to kids.

哈哈，as one who is over 18, I was afraid of that!












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Learn Chinese online - Middle Chinese Rimes (Tang 唐 /Song 宋 era) and Historical Chinese Phonology? -

> Learning Chinese > Non-Mandarin Chinese
Middle Chinese Rimes (Tang 唐 /Song 宋 era) and Historical Chinese Phonology?
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Xi'Er Dun -

Does anyone know of a source (online) that gives information of Middle Chinese Rimes (Rhymes?)
from the Tang 唐 and Song 宋 eras？ I am looking from detailed rime tables, rime dictionaries
and rime books that give information on （assumed) Middle Chinese pronounciation and phonology,
they must be online and free to view. However, I really want ones that use an proper transcription
system like the Karlgren System for example. Better yet, if one that uses the International
Phonetic Alphabet (IPA) is available, that would be great.

I have noticed in some books on Chinese Linguistics, they refer to Tang and Song era Chinese as
"Ancient Chinese" and that just centuries after as "Medieval Chinese".

An example of transcription of assumed Middle Chinese readings of Hanzi 漢字, as I have seen
before.

爾 Classical Chinese You, Thou Modern Mandarin: [ěr - (IPA font not viewable in this post)] ,
Middle Chinese [ńźi -(IPA font not viewable in this post)] , Japanese ONyomi 音讀み
[ニ　ni], Vietnamese Quốc Ngữ Việt Hán [ nhĩ ] -- sorry if you computer can't see
the Vietnamese.

日 Classical Chinese Sun, Day Modern Mandarin: [rì - (IPA font not viewable in this post)] ,
Middle Chinese [ńźit - (IPA font not viewable in this post)] , Japanese ONyomi 音讀み
[ニチ　nichi] , Vietnamese Quốc Ngữ Việt Hán [ nhật ].

熱 Hot Modern Mandarin [rè - (IPA font not viewable in this post)] , Middle Chinese [ńźiet] ,
Japanese ONyomi 音讀み [ネツ　netsu]

By the way, sorry the system I used in this post to transcribe Middle Chinese is not an official
one, and unfortunately I am not sure of the Middle Chinese tones.
It is unfortunate that you can't input an IPA font, but I have seen it done before, how?

Well that's all for now, I hope someone can put (link) me through to some good sources for Middle
Chinese Rimes and Historical Chinese Phonology.

謝謝您

Xi'Er Dun 希爾頓 from Australia 澳洲



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fireball9261 -

I am also interested in this. From the pronouciations you put in and what I could make out from
them, they sounded a bit like my hometown (Zhejiang) pronounciations of those words. Recently, I
also got a few books about this. I think I will dig around the web and see if I can find
something. I will post them if I find something.










SChinFChin -

I use the on-line dictionary at this sifte:

http://www.yellowbridge.com/language...dictionary.php

There is a tab for each character under "Character Details" that gives you the "Tang dynasty"
pronunciation as well as Mandarin, Cantonese, Japanese. among others.










fireball9261 -

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!












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Free Chinese Lesson - ZDT: 070RC2 - pinyin incompletely displayed -

> Learning Chinese > Chinese Computing and Technology > ZDT Flashcards Forum
ZDT: 070RC2 - pinyin incompletely displayed
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drahnier -

using the latest build (although I had this seen with previous builds, too), I sometimes see
things like this (this is not specific to amy particular dictionary):



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bogleg -

Thanks, fixed this one too.










drahnier -

Another variant (it always happens if there's a de5):

When can we expect a new code drop (say RC3)?










bogleg -

This whole class of problems should be fixed. I'll probably put a rc3 build in the next couple of
days.

Chrs










drahnier -

thanks for your continious efforts.

and don't get me wrong on reporting those errors: I love this program. it's by far the most
valuable freeware available to do the job!










bogleg -

Keep them coming. As long as people keep showing interest, I will keep plugging away.

Chris










drahnier -

Thanks for RC3 (anf for the updated handedict).

Using RC3 I'm still seeing issues in displaying of pinyin. These are only a few examples:










bogleg -

It's great that you can catch all these obscure types of bugs. I've fixed it and it will be in the
next build.

Chris










drahnier -

Hope it would not be too long til there is a new build. I'm in the process of tidying up my almost
complete Rosetta Stone Level 2 categories and would like to have this done as early as possible (I
spend almost three hours yesterday with RC3 cathing those bugs) ...

Also: the screen distortions I have reported with earlier builds also occur with RC3 (observed on
two Vista machines this time so far); it is always caused by scrolling through the list of
categories.










bogleg -

Ok, I just re-uploaded rc3. It has 2 fixes. One is the pinyin issue mentioned above and the other
is the category reordering problem. I finally traced it to a memory leak. Hopefully it works a bit
better now.

Chris












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Chinese Class - Chinese riddles -

> Chinese Culture > Art and Literature
Chinese riddles
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rob07 -

A while ago, I came across some Chinese riddles. The only one I can remember, and this might not
be exactly right, went as follows:

Riddle: 有一半, 又有一半
Solution: 朋友

Does anyone know of a website that has a selection of riddles like this?



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muyongshi -

Check out 字谜's. Just do a google search for that term and you will get a ton. Some will be
really hard and some will be okay. Have fun!










rob07 -

thanks very much and best of luck for 十一.










魔性的天使 -

Maybe "谜语" is Ok... You can find more interesting ones~~~ XD










muyongshi -

I have some relatively easy ones laying around here somewhere, let me go find them...

Don't you hate it when you go to get something that you know RIGHT where it is and then 竟然
it's not there and now you have no clue where to look because it shouldn't be anywhere else...

And then it turns out to be under a book next to your computer....

一口咬掉牛的尾巴
第二次见面
座中无人
值钱不值钱全在这两点
消灭蚊虫
你没有他有，天没有地有
一箭穿心
点点成金
一只狗，两个口，谁遇它，谁发愁
不知其二
东洋兵
拿不出手
公而忘私

If you figure it out you can post the answers here...

(disclaimer: about half of these were taken from Chinese Pod Advanced but they are still readily
accessible on the internet and are more public access...also there may be several different
versions of the one saying- one or two characters are different/missing, added something, etc.)












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Learn Mandarin online - A Java-based Chinese Input System -

> Learning Chinese > Chinese Computing and Technology
A Java-based Chinese Input System
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twinklellon -

CantoInput is a freely available, Unicode-based Chinese input method (IME) which allows you to
type both traditional and simplified characters using Cantonese romanization. Both the Yale and
Jyutping methods are supported. A Mandarin Pinyin mode is also available.

Here is a modified version with web launching engine. Good to try it!

Click the link below to launch CantoInput directly:
http://canto.520twinkle.com

Or, download the program here:
http://5201314.googlepages.com/CantoInput.jar
http://www.myjavaserver.com/~twinkle/CantoInput.jar





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iOsiris -

Yeah been using it for a while, works great~












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HSK Exam - The Warlords 投名狀 - Page 5 -

> Chinese Culture > Films and Television
The Warlords 投名狀
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skylee -



Quote:


Originally Posted by monto

As the movie goes, the three of the heroes made an oath together giving their names.


Actually they made the oath by each killing an innocent person (this part does not appear in the
mainland version). The film-makers were obviously inspired by the "Water Margin" when they decided
to include the "ceremony" in the film and have the film called by this name. This baidu link has
the story -> http://baike.baidu.com/view/841531.htm



Quote:

《水浒传》第十一回“朱贵水亭施号箭　林冲雪夜上梁山”写王伦要求林冲�
��一个人头来当见面礼。

林冲道：“小人一身犯了死罪，因此来投入伙，何故相疑？”王伦道：“既�
��如此，你若真心入伙，把一个‘投名状’来。”林冲便道：“小人颇识几��
�，乞纸笔来便写。”朱贵笑道：“教头你错了。但凡好汉们入伙，须要纳投
名状，是教你下山去杀得一个人，将头献纳，他便无疑心，这个便谓之投名�
��。”林冲道：“这事也不难，林冲便下山去等，只怕没人过。”王伦道：��
�与你三日限。若三日内有投名状来，便容你入伙；若三日内没时，只得休怪
。”林冲应承了，自回房中宿歇，闷闷不已。





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monto -

Thanks for skylee, you enlighten me much.
However, even in the song dynasty, 投名状 did not mean as 王伦 meant. 林冲 was an educated
person then, his understanding of the term should be regarded as standard.










skylee -

Given the story, I would think that the film makers chose the name according to what Wang Lun
meant instead of what Lin Chong thought, standard or non-standard, right or wrong.

BTW, I've found an English outline of the story of "Water Margin" here ->
http://poisonpie.com/words/others/so...t/outline.html



Quote:

Chapter 11.

Chai Jin rescues Lin Chong and writes a letter of introduction for him to the bandits at Liangshan
Marsh in Jizhou, headed by Wang Lun “White-Clad Scholar”, Du Qian “Skyscraper”, and Song
Wan “Guardian of the Clouds”. En route, Chai Jin meets Zhu Gui “Dry-Land Crocodile”,who
leads him to the bandits. Wang Lun recognizes Lin Chong’s merit and is afraid of admitting him
lest he lose power to him. He demands a “membership certificate”, a head of a man, from Lin
Chong in three days.

For three days, Lin Chong hides out in the woods, but finds no solitary man to kill. He only
manages to steal the luggage of Yang Zhi the “Blue-Faced Beast”.












floatingmoon -

It's based on an old story 刺馬， 3 brothers, betrayal, revenge.












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Pnyin - How do you say "torrent" - Page 2 -

> Learning Chinese > Speaking and Listening
How do you say "torrent"
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grayedge -

I am chinese native speaker.
I agree with rootfool, 比特流 is 'mostly means 'bit stream'. in my opinion, there is no exactly
corresponding chinese word for 'bit torrent', we just use the acronym 'bt', and we say the
.torrent file is 种子文件 of 'bt'. and because 'BT' is also the acronym of 'BianTai'(变态)
in Hanyu pinyin, we must distinguish the meaning of 'bt' in accordance with the context, in the
sentence '某人很bt'(or '某人是个大bt')，'bt' means abnormal; but in phrases
'bt下载'，'bt种子'(always relate to download from internet), it's means 'bit torrent'



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文言訓開班 -

变态 is japanese and anything in the canton region of china or therebouts understood as 好色,
or pervert.










skylee -



Quote:


Originally Posted by 文言訓開班

变态 is japanese and anything in the canton region of china or therebouts understood as 好色,
or pervert.


This is interesting.












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Learning Mandarin - Harbin Martial Arts? -

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Universities and Schools
Harbin Martial Arts?
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davemc -

Hi. I'm studying Mandarin in Harbin for the next year and am looking for a martial arts school or
gym around HIT...ok actually would be willing to ride the bus or walk a bit . There is a shopping
center nearby that has a gym but it is a little expensive (300 a month plus extra for Tae Kwon Do
class). I've studied kempo in the US for a while and would like to continue the exercise as well
as make some Chinese friends. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.



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-葛亚辉- -

where are you studying in Harbin....CET Harbin does a gongfu class, which (I assume) means that
gongda has a class of some kind, or somewhere very nearby. Shouldn't be hard to find though...go
to the gyms and ask people, I bet they know of classes










davemc -

Thanks for the reply. I'm at hagongda. I've been told that there should be a class here but I ask
around and noone knows anything. After school starts again this upcoming week I'll ask some of the
other students. I'll find one eventually












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Study Chinese - Palm TX – I’d like to know before buying it… -

> Learning Chinese > Chinese Computing and Technology
Palm TX – I’d like to know before buying it…
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Long Pan -

I am using a Palm Z22 with a Oxford version of Pleco (the basic one). I want to upgrade my Palm to
install Pleco ABC and also CJKOS (which does not run on Z22). These threads (1, 2, 3) convinced me
to go for a Palm TX which I plan to buy here in Beijing. There is just one point I would like to
confirm before buying it : I currently synchronise my Palm address book with Outlook; could you
please confirm me that with CJKOS I will have no problem to synchronise a Chinese name from the
Palm address book to Outlook. Thanks



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Long Pan -

Let me change my question so that maybe I get more success with this thread
1) For those who have a Palm with CJKOS and use Palm address book or Memos - when you synchronise
these applications with your PC, does it keep well the Chinese characters ?
2) if so, with which applications on your PC do you synchronise you Palm address book or Memos ?
3) anybody doing it with Outlook ? what is the result with 汉字 ?

Thanks for your answers










gato -

Chinese characters synch fine with Outlook and memo pad.










Long Pan -

Thanks Gato; I'll go and by this TX this WE

But just to understand better one point : I thought Outlook only works with Unicode as CJKOS works
with GB and Big 5, how come can they synchro together ?










adrianlondon -

I tried this by entering a Chinese name in my Palm TX and syncing it with both Outlook and the
Palm Desktop.

Both times, the Chinese name showed in garbled characters. This is because, I guess, the PC
applications are using Unicode whereas the Palm TX with CJKOS is using GB.










gato -



Quote:

I tried this by entering a Chinese name in my Palm TX and syncing it with both Outlook and the
Palm Desktop.

Both times, the Chinese name showed in garbled characters. This is because, I guess, the PC
applications are using Unicode whereas the Palm TX with CJKOS is using GB.

It worked for me. In the language setting under control panel, do you have "language for
non-unicode program" set to "Chinese(PRC)"? Not that that should make a difference. But just an
outside possibility.










Long Pan -

I’m afraid that this will not do it for me; indeed as a French speaker I need the Windows
non-unicode language option to be French (and get my beloved accents)
Why Palm does not have his OS in Unicode like Windows; would be easier to mix all languages, no ?
Is that a problem of size (Unicode being more voluminous than other encoding, as far as I can
remember) ?










gato -

Have you tried synching with your Z22 first as a test?










ipsi() -

You will need to have that set. It won't work otherwise. This is because CJKOS (which you'll need
to buy seperately) only supports GB2312, GBK and Big5 natively. It uses Codepages if it's viewing
UTF-8 content...

It's a pain. You can also use AppLocale to change the encoding for just one application. I prefer
this, as changing the system encoding seems to change a number of other things as well.










Long Pan -

Gato, I’ve installed CJKOS on my Z22 (it runs well contrary to what I said in my first post) but
I get some ???? in my Palm address book for the Chinese characters that are synchronised from
Outlook (this happens with the “French” as non-unicode language)
Then of course I should try the same process with “Chinese” as as non-unicode language (what
you recommend) but I am just scared that then all the specific French characters
(é,à,ù,ç,è,ê,ë) that I have in Outlook will then come strange after synchronisation (which
I really do not want) and that I cannot recover the original. So I haven't done it.

Ipsi, AppLocale seems to be a good solution to open an application; but my problem comes when
synchronising Outlook with Palm (address book or Memo), so I don’t think it could help. Or maybe
it could help if I choose Chinese as non-unicode language on my PC, to open some application where
the French accents go crazy (like a dictionary I have). But before that I need to be sure that
during the synchro I do not lose all my accents…












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Chinese Tutor - Cool site/PDF for learning (taiwan) Mandarin -

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aafrophone -

http://edu.ocac.gov.tw/interact/eboo...DF%5CE-H-N.pdf

its from taiwan, so obviously its in traditional characters. its for the very basics. and if you
go to the site (erase everything after the ...tw/) then you'll see othere rescources. one thing
that interested me was that in that pdf file each character has the bopomofo ruby characters next
to it. i learned a lot so far. good luck!



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projectgcm -

Nice find!










atitarev -

Great, I asked this question in another thread, here's the answer!

http://www. /showthread.php?t=19209

I see, you posted there too












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Learn Mandarin online - Thread 19107 -

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Thread 19107
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Myriam -





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roddy -

Where are you accessing the Internet from? It discusses methods which could also be used to
download pirated movies and music, I'd guess it's being blocked somewhere. There's no technical
problem with the thread.










roddy -

They've probably blocked access to pages discussing downloading to prevent people trying to do it
on their computers. Speak to the management if you want, but it's not that interesting a thread












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Chinese Speaking - 大家 and 人家 -

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大家 and 人家
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Ari 桑 -

I'm a little unclear as to the correct usage of 人家 and how it differs from 大家. Can 人家
refer to yourself? Or to some general concept of people?

My friend wrote me this: 中国有个歌手有首歌叫TMD我爱你 刚出来都以为是骂人呢
后来人家说是甜蜜的我爱你让人跌破眼镜

Does this mean "finally everybody realizes/says its a sweet I love you" or "finally you realize
its a sweet I love you"



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skylee -

人家 can be used to refer to oneself and refer to a third person/other people (come to think of
it, it is confusing to learners).

Exemple of 人家 referring to oneself -
A: 你幹嗎臉紅？
B: 人家害羞嘛。

Exemple of 人家 referring to a third person/other people -
A: 她幹嗎臉紅？
B: 人家害羞嘛。

ha ha ha. (looks like they don't help much)

Here is a more comprehensive explanation of 人家 -



Quote:

27. 人家 [ren2jia1], n., (1) a dwelling house; (2) s.o. else's home; (3) a high-class family:
清白人家 a decent family; 富貴人家 a rich and politically influential family; (4) a family
engaged in a certain occupation: 務農人家 a farm family; 作工的人家 an artisan’s
(workingman's) family; (5) a wife: 娶個人家 get married; (6) (*[ren2jia0]) some one, one, used
to denote (a) somebody else: 人家的事你不用管 don’t meddle with somebody else's
business; [ren2jia0], (b) used to denote others：人家可不能像你那麼胡說 others,
another, will not talk such nonsense as you do; (c) or to denote the speaker himself:
你成天拿人家開玩笑 you are making fun of me all the time; (d) to denote persons of a
particular class: 男人家 the menfolk, 女人家 womenfolk; 婦道人家 ditto; 女孩人家
girls; [ren2jia1], (7) the husband's family before marriage: 給她找個人家 choose a
prospective husband for her; 已經有人家兒了 she is already engaged.

In the sentence you quoted, it means "subsequently other people (or the singer/writer/producer)
said that it meant 'sweet I love you' ".

Here is an explanation of 大家 -


Quote:

45. 大家 [da4jia1], n., (1) all, all people: 大家唱 let's all sing together; (2) master of an
art of craft; (3) 大家閨秀 woman from a cultured family.












ydong -

the sentence that your friends given to you is not "通顺". i don't know how to say this in
english. however, in a nut shell, you should forget about the sentence. you can trust me, cause
i'm a chinese myself.










skylee -

Ari 桑, do tell us if you trust ydong because s/he is Chinese.

Personally I think the sentence is OK, although obviously punctuation marks are missing.










semantic nuance -



Quote:

the sentence that your friends given to you is not "通顺".

I think the sentence is fine. As skylee indicated, maybe punctuation marks were missing, but that
did not mean the sentence is not ok.

Hope it helps!










rootfool -



Quote:

Personally I think the sentence is OK



Quote:

I think the sentence is fine.

我附议.










Ari 桑 -

Its written from my friend in china, who is chinese too. Of course, lots of what we say isn't
totally coherent (通顺 by the way), but I still want to understand the incoherence. Thats
important.










yeah.right -

大家 means everyone
人家 means others ,sometimes 人家 reffers to self.












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Susanna -

speak to native Chinese speakers.

listen to standard mandarin Chinese.

small live class, 1 teacher to 1-7students.

pls log in www.chinesehour.com and click "free trial"

we are waiting for you.



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Learn Chinese - Magazine and Newspapers -

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Magazine and Newspapers
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#1



Magazine and Newspapers




Magazine
Discussion thread:
http://www. /showth...light=magazine

http://www.nanfangdaily.com.cn
南方周末 (Southern Weekend), a popular yet fairly serious weekly newspaper, covers the news,
culture, business, and politics,

http://www.yweekend.com/
青年周末 YWeekend. The weekly newspaper. Punchy, irreverent stories, divided into two sections
- media review, which looks at the stories behind the current news headlines, and a sort of
web-style-arts section. It's not available at all newsstands, but look around for it on Thursday
or Friday. It's got an orange-and-black cover. Or you could just read it online every week.

http://chinese.wsj.com
Wall Street Journal (Bilingual edition; click on 英 for English)

http://www.ftchinese.com/sc/story.jsp?id=001014415
Financial Times (Bilingual edition; click on 查看英文原文 for English)

http://www.caijing.com.cn/
《财经》 , the leading business/current affairs magazine in China.

http://www.lifeweek.com.cn/
三联生活周刊 (Life Week). A bit like Time magazine. About half the articles in each issue
are about things happening in China, half devoted to introducing Western culture and lifestyle to
a Chinese audience.

http://www.gotoread.com/mag/12770
广角镜, from Hong Kong. Basically, the magazine is designed for “policy makers”.
1) It is very direct, and un-euphemistic in its writing style.
2) It talks about “sensitive” political issues, such as the top leadership of the CCP, Taiwan,
and China’s foreign policy in a very direct and objective manner.
3) It sums up some of the most important trends in the Mainland in a very concise manner.
4) It uses traditional characters (I’ve basically fallen in love with traditional recently)

http://www.lep.com.cn/wxzz/wxmw.htm
《万象》, a magazine focused on the arts and culture.
杂志自一九九八年新刊发行以来，得到知识界、读书界儒英才的支持和关爱�
��在海内外旧雨新知中获得广泛好评。在新时期，《万象》全体编印人员继��
�奉献思想美文、雅趣小品，满足广大读者的不同阅读情趣，为书香人间尽绵
薄之力。欢迎订阅《万象》杂志。

http://www.abbao.cn/
AB报, a daily updated website that holds a compendium of electronic Chinese papers.


====================================================================================================





Contributors: chenpv, gato

Created by gato, 29th July 2007 at 05:20 PM
Last edited by chenpv, 13th October 2007 at 02:14 AM
7 Comments , 965 Views


Discussion
















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Chinese Online Class - ZDT: 0.7b2 and adso, handedict problem -

> Learning Chinese > Chinese Computing and Technology > ZDT Flashcards Forum
ZDT: 0.7b2 and adso, handedict problem
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drahnier -

Whenever I try to use either adso or handedict, I get the following error:



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Chinese Pinyin - babelfish name transliteration - Page 2 -

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Page 2 of 2 < 1 2






imron -



Quote:

rom what you are saying everyone with the surname Jones who immigrates to China will have a
different and random set of characters to represent their english last name.

Yep, similar to the way that many Chinese people use different spellings of their Chinese names
when they go to an English speaking country, e.g. Lee/Li Zhang/Chang Wong/Wang etc etc.



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Free Chinese Lesson - Suggestions for Chinese Name - Page 2 -

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gato -

I still like Mo Ruihan or Mo Hanrui, as suggested by skylee.

Rui Jia Rui is a little sing-songy.



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IndhuRen -



Quote:

Rui Jia Rui is a little sing-songy.

Quite true, I showed it to a Chinese friend, he says it sound like a shop name.

He also said 莫涵睿 sounds ok. So I think I will take 莫涵睿 (Mo4 Han2 Rui4)

Thank you every body for your kind suggestions










HashiriKata -



Quote:

So I think I will take 莫涵睿 (Mo4 Han2 Rui4)

Glad to see that you've found a nice name.

The search for your name in Chinese reminded me that Chinese doesn't the sound "Ra" in the system,
which is peculiar because "ra" seems to be one of the easiest sounds to pronounce, and we know
that Chinese have many much more difficult sounds than this.










Stefani -

Doesn't Raja means King? You can possibly take on the last name of "Wang" 王










IndhuRen -



Quote:

Doesn't Raja means King? You can possibly take on the last name of "Wang" 王

In my actual name RAJA means King and RAJ means Prince...

But Wang2 Mo4 Han2 doesn't sound right to me but Mo4 Han2 Rui4 seems to sound better. Thanks for
the suggestion anyway....










madizi -

Well, it's up to you to choose. Sometimes Chinese also translate the meaning if it is possible (as
is in your case).












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Learning Chinese - Chinese RPG game -

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SeekerOfPeace -

Hi again,

Do anyone know of a good quality Chinese RPG game.

Now before branding this as off topc let me explain why.

I learned my English through countless hours playing video games.

Not only that, of course, but that was certainly part of it.

I really enjoy translating the story and I find much more motivating to learn 汉字 when I find a
use for it right away.

It certainly beats memorizing 汉字 one by one.

I'm guessing I'm learning close to 20 汉字 a day with this method.

I basically take a screen shot and then I paste it in word.

After that, I use my dictionary to identify each 汉字 individually (those I don't know).

I finally use my dictionary to translate what is being said.

Here's a sample to give you an idea:



I'm looking for free games using simplified Chinese if possible.

Please do provide some links if possible.



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Quest -

Not free, but you can try:
This series 幻想三囯志(1-3): http://youtube.com/watch?v=KWHFSCnkbUs
This series 仙剑奇侠传(1-4): http://youtube.com/watch?v=hzg4dUJGA9E

but the language used in these games contains many classical elements and is not the same as
everyday spoken Chinese.










SeekerOfPeace -

Thank you Quest for your help, it is appreciated.

I've tried one of those games and could understand a lot of things.

I think it must've been a demo because it was really, really short.

EDIT: How much are those games?










Quest -

Are you in China? http://search.ebay.com.cn










SeekerOfPeace -

Not at the moment, no.

They both look really neat.

Maybe some older game would work as well, while being free of charge (abandonware).

I'll keep looking...










Quest -

There are at least 10 games in those 2 series. It's like the Final Fantasy franchise. To get
abandon ware, you would have to go all the way back to the 80s, and if you can bear with the
graphics.. the game you posted is 风云1? I don't think that's abandonware either. Anyways, good
luck hunting down those games.










roddy -

Here's one which should be free to play SUN, and another. Other The9 games might be worth looking
at - there's a bit of a shift at the moment towards making online games free to pay, but charging
for equipment - and making it very easy to level up so that you end up needing higher level
equipment as soon as possible.










Quest -

Online games aren't as text based as traditional rpgs, and probably not as beneficial for language
learning.










kdavid -

I agree with Quest to an extent.

World of Warcraft, for example, isn't a very large text-based game. You wouldn't be reading a
whole lot unless you're speaking with other in-game players through in-game methods (type chat).

However, many players of WoW do play together using various chat programs (team speak, ventrillo,
etc.). If you're looking to improve your speaking and listening as well, and already have a decent
level of Mandarin, then playing with a group (guild) of WoW players might be a good idea.










simonlaing -

HI Seeker,

I have a good french friend who lives in Paris but likes to play WOW on chinese servers, one it
helps her chinese and two it is cheaper than European or US servers.

They have a clan aswell I think, but I can't remember the website off hand. You can do a search.
It is pretty cool.
have fun,
SimoN












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Chinese Class - What should I read? - Page 3 -

> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing
What should I read?
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rootfool -



Quote:

bought one of the large 《中国通史》books with lots of pictures, but found it read more like
a storybook of chronologically-ordered famous events and people than an actual history book.

who is the author of the book?
there're many versions of 《中国通史》。the version which written by 范文瀾 or 白壽彝
are better than others.



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gato -

Read 王小波's《黄金时代》 first. I think you'll like it, and it is pretty easy to read
compared to the others.










rootfool -

I also like his novel.Some people who likes him very much called themselves 王小波门下走狗.
And one of them said:"After you read wang xiao bo's novel,you 'll have two possiblity:one is
starting to write a novel at once.another is didn't write novel any more.










gougou -



Quote:

中华散文精粹

I bought that one at Wangfujing yesterday (as the only installment of the 知道一点。。。
series they had was the one not about China). Got through the first three or four today, and I'm
loving it. I always thought 散文 was some kind of dull essay, but it turns out they're pretty
much like short stories. Just what I need for my daily commute - thanks, gato!










roddy -



Quote:


Originally Posted by gato

Read 王小波's《黄金时代》 first. I think you'll like it, and it is pretty easy to read
compared to the others.


Nice thing about Wang Xiaobo for learners is that he's generally easy to read, is actually funny,
and perhaps most importantly, he wrote lots of short stuff. Picked up one volume of the complete
works today (have no idea how many different editions of his stuff there are, I must have paid for
some of his stuff seven times over by now) and am enjoying the short story 绿毛水怪。I
haven't finished it yet, but so far nobody's died or been beaten to a pulp, so that's one up on
余华。

Incidentally if anyone has bits and pieces of Wang Xiaobo lying around they're not reading, check
to see if you have the short story 猫 anywhere, and if you do sit down and read it.










gato -



Quote:

中华散文精粹
Got through the first three or four today, and I'm loving it.

In that case, I should go buy a copy myself. Haha. You should 胡适's essay "我的母亲". I
read it some time ago and found it really touching.

I've been browsing through my neighborhood bookstores looking for the perfect essay compilation
lately. But perfection is not easy, and I haven't actually bought one, yet. Maybe I'll get the one
you are reading. I do already a collection edited by 贾平凹 called
影响了我的三十二篇美文, which is not too bad. But some of the essays in it are pretty
dopey.

By the way, 冯骥才 who edited your 中华散文精粹 is both a writer and a painter.
Here is his profile:
http://baike.baidu.com/view/33882.htm
And his blog showing some of his paintings:
http://blog.sina.com.cn/fengjicai
冯骥才的博客










Pravit -

BTW, if anyone does buy the Peking University 中国古代简史, make sure you get the version
with maps (I believe it has a greenish cover?). I was quite irritated after noticing this version
existed, since mine is mapless.










gougou -



Quote:

I always thought 散文 was some kind of dull essay,

Turns out I was not completely wrong about that. I've skipped a few by now that discussed four
characters from Zhuangzi, or described a certain painter... Still like the others, though, mainly
for being easily understandable, and giving me an impression of how some famous writers like
老舍 or 巴金 write.










gato -



Quote:

if anyone does buy the Peking University 中国古代简史, make sure you get the version with
maps (I believe it has a greenish cover?). I was quite irritated after noticing this version
existed, since mine is mapless.

I think you mean 《简明中国古代史》by 张传玺 published by Beijing University Press. I
bought a copy today. I was amused by the preface in which the author said that one of the special
things about the book is that it's based on historical materialist perspective. Nevertheless, I
bought a copy because the format looked good. I like the pictures and maps (haha), and each
chapter is fairly short (7-10 pages) and appeared to be an easy read. If you are looking for a
basic outline of Chinese history written in Chinese, I think this is a good book to get.

If anyone is interested, I also bought these books:
往事何堪哀 by 王彬彬, stories of the Party's treatment of intellectuals in its early days;
经典常谈 by 朱自清, introduction to Chinese classics (such as the Confucius's Analects) by
朱自清, one of the most famous of pre-1949 essayists;
品读经典 edited 腾浩, a collection of famous essays from the 1920s to present day.










muyongshi -

For some online reading resources look here.

Has classics, moderns, children's junk and all in all a good FREE resource...












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Pnyin - "We need investigative journalists" courageous editorial -

> Chinese Culture > Society
"We need investigative journalists" courageous editorial
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Long Pan -

Courageous and powerful editorial from today China Daily columnist You Nuo. Taking the recent
“Shanxi slaves story” as example, You Nuo points out the importance of journalism which in
that particularly event was first to investigate and denounce the case. Trouble is that this kind
of journalism is uncommon in China where (I quote) “the national and city based media coverage
only cater to middle-class consumer interests – expensive houses, European tours, Italian
fashions” [feeding a society] (I still quote) “where saving face is traditionally more valued
that telling the truth”. Then going on further “the lack of investigative reporting also has
to do with the fact that despite the award ceremonies that appear in the press almost daily, there
has never been an award for investigative journalism”. Investigation journalism that according
to You Nuo could help denouncing the “loop-holes in the system” as “corruption among
law-enforcement authorities” – which in the Shanxi case was “collaboration between some
local officials and the mafia that runs he brick trade”. To conclude that “to do so, sooner or
later, the nation will begin to appreciate the usefulness of investigative journalism”. Thanks
for this editorial.



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gato -

The problem is with the government control of the press. It's as if Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger
had the power to appoint and dismiss all news editors in California.

The article below gives more details.


Quote:

http://www.cpj.org/Briefings/2001/Ch...ina_aug01.html
Although financial controls over the press have eased due to the growth of the advertising market,
there has been no fundamental change in the relationship between the press and the government.

Central control over information in China is part of a systematic, institutionalized mechanism.
Local officials are directly responsible for implementing central policy, which includes
controlling the legal, political, and personnel structures of media organs.












wushijiao -

For awhile, it seemed that investigative reporters from a paper in, say, Guangdong, could go to
another province and do some good reporting, exposing cover ups, scams, corruption and the like.
Then through word of mouth and the Internet, the news about that story would reach back to its
original place.

I found an article on Google that sums it up:

"Until recently, some in-depth reporting on land grabs, corruption, and other local issues could
be done, ironically enough, by journalists from outside the local area. These reporters, if they
moved fast enough, could file at least a few, relatively uncensored reports before local
propaganda officials would be able to alert central authorities to shut down nationwide coverage.

Central authorities banned this reporting practice— known as yidi baodao, or cross-territorial
reporting—last year. Reporters told CPJ that the ban, while applied unevenly, has had a profound
impact. The decree has compelled editors to rein in some of their strongest investigative
reporters, and has empowered local officials to harass, intimidate, and block access to
journalists who were once beyond the censor’s grasp. "

http://www.cpj.org/Briefings/2006/DA.../china_06.html



Quote:

The problem is with the government control of the press. It's as if Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger
had the power to appoint and dismiss all news editors in California.

I think the analogy would be a bit better if it were Bush (as the leader of the "central"
government) who could fire and jail journalists in and editors based on their reporting.

But I agree 100% that good investigative journalism is needed to make a society function well.










gato -

I wanted to make a point with the Arnold analogy that censors exist at the local level, too, in
China. But yes, the central-level censor obviously matter. But even if the central censors
liberalized, the local censors still have quite a bit of power to stop investigative reporting in
its tracks.

You Nuo, the China Daily column, may be well-intentioned and a little naive about why
investigative journalism hasn't flourished in China. But China Daily is an English language paper
intended for a foreign audience. Until we see the same editorial in People's Daily, I don't think
we can take this is call too seriously.










wushijiao -



Quote:

I wanted to make a point with the Arnold analogy that censors exist at the local level, too, in
China.

Yeah, you're right. I was just about to edit my post to reflect that.

I just wanted to point out that the lack of investigative reporting stems from the center, and
therefore it is a systematic problem, not the problem of some rogue official.










boiten_valise -

If anyone wants some good, reliable information concerning the chinese government - that sounded
more covert and fbi than intended - then I have some really good documents I can send you guys. My
friend, who works as a lobbyist, is very anal about keeping up-to-date with the current events.
I've noticed how hard it was for me to find any reliable information on China's government, so I
asked him if he knew of any good sites, information, etc. He sent me two attachments which turned
out to be fantastic sources of information. If you guys are interested, just email me or whatever.












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HSK - So, what do they come for, if it's not for teaching English? - Page 3 -

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Living in China
So, what do they come for, if it's not for teaching English?
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david1978 -



Quote:

A male typically should be getting stuck in to his career after 25 - building it up in his 30's
and at the peak of his earning powers in his 40's. Any male who finds himself teaching in China
after the age of 30 can consider himself a failure in life (Thanks Mrs Thatcher for the quote :-)
).

This statement is incongruent with the economies of post-industrial nations. It is inconceivable
for anyone to be "stuck in to his career after 25" (interesting choice of words) when in the
specialized, service-sector economies of the West, a Bachelors degree has significantly dropped in
value. In today's economy it is a given that to have a career one must have a professional degree,
e.g., JD, MD, MBA, CPA, and so on. Let's be generous and say that the average male student in the
U.S. completes his undergrad program in a timely schedule to receive his BA at 22 years of age (in
reality 24 is the average age for males), and let's say that this student went onto graduate
school immediately following the completion of his undergrad degree without taking any time off,
and completed his graduate degree in a timely schedule of 3 or 4 years, depending on the
profession (longer for Ph.D candidates), in reality, then, the average male should be 25-26 years
old when he gets his entry level job. But this is the most ideal scenario, reality is always more
complicated.

The quote you posted above reflects an era where getting a BA was still something of an
achievement. It was also an era where people rarely traveled and had children by 25. However, the
demands of today's market place are vastly different than Thatcher's era. We, i.e., those of us
who are under 30 but over 25, are not getting married or having kids, and we're typically in
school far longer. Therefore, if you insist on judging people's worth based on their professional
standing, add 10 years to your figures for a more accurate picture of post-modern society.



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ipsi() -

Note: I'm assuming you're in the US as I don't have any proof to the contrary.

David, that's pretty insane if that's the standard in America. I'm about to graduate at the end of
this year with my two undergraduate degrees at the age of 21. If I wanted to do a post-graduate
programme, that would take another year for honours, then an additional one or two for masters. Or
I could not do that, and still likely get a decent job in New Zealand. And if I had done only one
degree I would have already graduated and be out and working, at the age of 20. Even then, worst
case scenario would be 22 for a masters, which seems to be quite unnecessary over here and only
really needed for a few specialised areas.

Man. Seems to be excessively hard in the States...










david1978 -

@ ipsi():

You're right: the educational requirements the U.S. economy places on the average person are high,
but I suspect the same is to be found in most post-industrial nations, e.g., Europe, Japan,
Israel, etc. This is largely due to free markets, of course. There was a time when a robust U.S.
manufacturing base provided Americans with dignified jobs, union protection, benefits, and so on.
However, with the increasing rise of technology, and the wave of outsourcing to "Chindia," the
U.S. moved from an economy based on industry to one based on services, e.g., lawyers, accountants,
investment bankers, doctors, etc. These jobs require professional degrees which demand a person
spend a considerably longer time in school than previous. Simply put. today it is inconceivable to
expect a six figure salary with a BA; even from a top school. Moreover, most students major in
subjects like political science, art history, English, in other words, subjects that have no
practical application. This is why I think the original comment that a person should be "stuck in
to his career at 25" is misinformed. At 25 most people are still figuring things out. I recently
heard a sociologist say 25 is the new 21; I agree.










ipsi() -

It possibly is. It's definitely not in New Zealand, however. While you'd be very unlikely to get a
six-figure salary with a B.A., that's more to do with the fact that a B.A. is regarded as "Bugger
All". Having said that, I don't think anyone in New Zealand will be walking into a job with a
six-figure salary, no matter what their qualification. A few years with experience, maybe. A
bachelor's degree will be fine though. With regards to Accounting and Legal professionals, most
start their career at age 21-22 or so over here. Though they're not registered professionals, but
are working in that area and are planning to become registered within a few years. I think it's at
least two more years of working before you become a C.A., and I'm not sure about taking the bar
exam as a lawyer.

The other thing that strikes me as odd is the fact that you're talking about BAs exclusively, or
at least implying that they're extremely common. I guess that's because American Universities
don't let you do anything else until you've done a B.A.? At least, I've heard something along
those lines. Whereas here, the majority of Professionals won't have a B.A. I certainly won't, but
I will have a B.C.A., and a B.Sc. Indeed, Accountants spend only an extra year at University
beyond what a B.A. student would spend, as do Lawyers.

I gotta say, if that is the case, it seems really bizzare. I'd be a bit annoyed to be forced to
study a B.A. before moving on to whatever I want to do for a career.










Crivens200 -

Interesting information there David, which I think I agree with to an extent on further
reflection, though I think around 25 should be the latest starting point for anyone intending on
pursuing a career along the lines of one of the professions. Any older than this and potential
employers really won't take you seriously, especially if the candidate has been teaching English
in China for any longer than 12 months.

Actually, I have a lot of German friends and they all seem to spend a longer time in education and
start their careers a lot later - sometimes late 20's early 30's.

Personally I don't see the value of further education after 25 - I think 3 or 4 years of practical
experience after 25 is infintely more valuable than further studies.

Actually, anyone who comes to China and is slightly ambitious maybe should be looking to start up
their own thing. There are still a lot of opportunties here for anyone with a bit of drive and
common sense. Who wants to spend 40 years of their life staring at a computer screen in an office
working with a bunch of people you don't want anything to do with after 5pm?

I guess this brings us back to the point of the original question - why do they come here? I'd
rather teach English in China than spend 40 years of my life in an office . . . . . hell I'd
rather be dead than choose that path in life.










david1978 -



Quote:

Actually, I have a lot of German friends and they all seem to spend a longer time in education and
start their careers a lot later - sometimes late 20's early 30's.

Your friends are typical, Crivens. Also keep in mind that we haven't even discussed the fact that
people are not getting married or having children thus feeling no great urgency to make a lot of
money. It's likely that your parents, like mine, had you by their mid to late twenties. But who
today has a family at 25 or even 30?










david1978 -

@ ipsi():

You're correct: in the U.S. a BA is a prerequisite to any professional degree. You cannot get an
MS in accounting, an MBA, a JD, etc, without completing a BA first. After the BA we have to take a
standardized test such as the LSAT, the MCAT, or the GMAT whose score will determine what tier
grad program we will go to. With that said, the solace lies in knowing that when you do finally
graduate and are ready to begin work in your late 20s or early 30s, you get a handsome six figure
starting salary which usually also includes a handsome yearly bonus and benefits.










ipsi() -

Interesting. I have to say, I think I prefer the way it works over here, which is that you get out
and working as soon as possible. I assume it costs money for the BA and then another ungodly sum
for the Professional Degree? And given that you're still technically students while studying for
your professional degree, I assume you retain the average standard of living for a student (i.e.
piss-poor)?

Then again, starting out with a six-figure salary would be damn nice. Hmm. Food for thought either
way.










david1978 -

Student loans are a whole other matter! The cost of tuition in a top private university is
obscene. I'll be starting law school in the fall semester of 2008 and I feel dizzy just thinking
about how much it's going to cost me.










ipsi() -

So you *need* that six figure salary to pay for the cost of getting it in the first place. Awesome

Just for comparison, Domestic Students pay around NZ$6,000 a year in tuition at my University
(which, given how small New Zealand is, is at the same level as the rest), with another NZ$1000 or
so for Textbooks, and up to around NZ$4,500 in living costs, for a total of around NZ$11,500 a
year, meaning worst-case scenario you end up with a NZ$46,000 student loan after four years. Which
can be reduced if you do the very sensible thing of living at home, to around NZ$28,000. And it's
interest-free assuming you stay in New Zealand after graduating.

Admittedly, the cost varies depending on what you study. BA students pay less, Law and Science
students pay more, etc. Doctors and Dentists and the like pay even bigger sums. But while it seems
big to me, I've got a strange feeling you're going to be a bit jealous












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